I think revitalizing the community is a by product of a live and vigorous product line so lets focus on that area for now UDOO Board: Find away to get more into the budge market, one of the biggest boost beagleboard gone was when they got the BBB down to the $45 price range. Right now with the $99 model really isn't worth it for most people meaning the entry is $120 or if they want the best $135. This prevents casual hobbyists from making an impulse purchase. Personally the lite model should be one that can be had for roughly $50. Move to a single core like the i.MX6S. See if wifi or ethernet can be included which ever is cheaper. Arguably you could leave this out and the consumer can buy a wifi dongle. either USB or the UDOO one that fits the existing header Could a single core board be powered with 5V? not having to buy a new adapter is nice, less money people need to get started. on the arduino side, i think for consistancy this should be kept the same as the rest of the boards Accessories: standardize the displays and clean them up so they are easier purchases for the consumers. Have them in at least rudimentary cases or include a $4/$5 stand like this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00523M4RC/ . I use this with the 7". I havent put the 15" on it, i think it would hold it but i havent checked. Point is right now its cumbersome.. not convenient with all the wires and boards (on the 15"). these little things go a long way. Find ways to use accessories that can be shared with or leveraged from the existing Rasberry PI and BBB Eco system. Software: To me this is the single biggest place where you can set yourself apart. You and easily a dozen other companies are trying to capture this market of single board, ARM and Intel based computers. Raspberry Pi is in the lead mainly due to the $25/$35 price tag which caused a media storm. Beagle bone was a major competitor in the market, but lagged market share in comparison until they made the move to cut the price in half. This caused a boom in sales because it put the BBB in price competition with the Pi. Price is everything to get it onto peoples radar and total real world price is often overlooked. A few people have done articles on this and shown that the Pi is actually rather expensive for a new person to start with. That $35 computer turns into $90-$100 after you buy and SD card, HDMI cable, WiFi, keyboard/mouse etc. While many people have some of these few have all of these. Beaglebone does a nice thing where they include the 1 'required' piece, the usb cable. A new users with no accessories can take the BBB out of its tin, plug into the computer and within 10 minutes they can be coding. thought the complexity increases once you go past what you can do in the welcome web page. The BBB is superior to the Pi in almost all areas including the area of Software, and i think this is where UDOO should look to learn. Pi is getting better now with NOOBs but BBB has this setup/new user experience that is wonderful. Using networking over USB you can SSH to the BBB with ZERO board setup. with a local setup of Cloud9 you can start coding via a web interface with ZERO setup. i think both of these things.. networking over USB, and a local web based IDE are perfect areas to look at for improvement. Maybe skip the networking over USB.. but dont overlook the web based IDE. Cloud9 is a great tool to put in place. The very successful Adafruit Web-IDE that was built for the Pi, and now also works on the BBB, is more proof that people want this. I tried a few times to get cloud9 working last year but issues with Node.js and my overall lack of expertise kept preventing me from making it work. A Web based IDE that allowed programming on the Linux side with python would be great but think about if it could also program the Arduino side. now all you need is a web based connection and you are programing the DUE chip. Add in as part of the web IDE a web programmer using blocks like scratch, i cant recall the names of them but i know that Modkit Mico has a web based implementation of there graphical IDE. They are still working on carving out a name for themselves against minibloq and others so if you cant find an open source version you can implement then a partnership might work out well.. just a thought... Since you only have one board model to worry about the implementation should be easier. Find ways to make things easier without taking away power from the power users. Develop a UDOO specific configuration tool like raspi-config for the raspi.. allow it to define the specifics like booting to desktop or not and the other general configurations things that are needed. Maybe taking something like webmin and customizing it for UDOO. this can controlling starting of X, and it can control package management. maybe there is a not so difficult way of having something like this implement a full Ubuntu install or a striped down lightweight version by removing all the excess packages with out requiring the user to untick hundreds of boxes. Combining this with the thoughts above, a web based welcome page like the BBB uses can go along way to help with this. Have a webpage that can apply configurations, have it with simple graphics or animations showing how which usb ports to use, which jumpers to move, and which buttons to push if you want to reset, program the SAM3X8 directly from the PC, establish a USB OTG connection, or use the serial console. all of these things are items that raised regular questions by new users. Have it break out the GPIOs in an interactive manor, tied to the graphical webIDE this could be very powerful. Remember building a superior piece of hardware is the first step.. in my option you guys nailed this.. but this alone wont get you anywhere notable. You have to make yourselves stand out.. show that your product is friendly enough so that relative new comers shouldn't be scared of it and can make use of there $100+ investment (hopefully we can lower this).. but also show that power users can have all the power they want. Anyways, i know some of this may be feasible and and some may not be.. just know that if you not interested in doing a new 'lite' version then your hardware is solid and its worth a minority of the focus being put into software.. while improving the OS images is likely a focus these these types of things should be considered also. So there is my 2 cents on the topic (ok maybe 50 cents) lol
Ok, my thoughts - I've been playing on and off with the RPi since they came out (I managed to get one in the first batch, and have 4 of them now...) So most of my comments are coming from that comparison perspective.... 1) That MagPi online magazine that some users started up for the Pi is a GODSEND to newbs and also to exposing people to new ideas for new projects, etc. Something like that for the Udoo would be awesome. 2) the price point - don't know what can really be done there - If you strip too much off to get the price point down around $50, then it's going to lose so much of the differentiating factors - I love the Udoo because it's 4x more powerful than the Pi, which is almost painful to use at times. Don't sacrifice that for the lower price point. 3) the OS and supporting software need to continue to be your #1, #2 and #3 focus! The Pi community was pretty much a mess the first 6-8 months until Raspbian (hard float debian recompiled specifically for the Pi) was released. Now it's pretty much the standard. We're currently still in this HORRIBLY confusing state in Udoo-land where when you read about somebody doing something, running something, or having an issue with something you just don't know what OS they're using, which version, hard or soft float, etc. We need a STANDARD that is called out by Udoo as such (and it honestly SHOULD be Hard Float to maximize the performance). I'd even suggest going to Debian as that standard (nice and stripped down and streamlined), because when I hear Ubuntu on ARM, all I think is "Ugh, HEAVY, RAM sucker". EVERYTHING you guys do should be for that platform first and foremost - let the community worry about porting changes to other versions if they want, but You need to focus on one (or two if you include Android). And the most important things OS-wise that MUST MUST MUST be working (you've already fixed a lot of this, just pointing it out): * Uboot working properly * HDMI working properly * Arduino compiling, uploading, running properly both from Udoo and from external machines * OpenGL working properly * Audio support * Camera function * Display function w/ touchscreen * Libraries/abstraction layers for setting up/working with the GPIO pins from the Linux side in different languages easily (such as Python, C/C++, Java, etc.) Everything after that is just nice-to-haves that aren't as immediate. But those functions MUST MUST MUST work properly for this to be successful. 4) Not sure what you guys are doing as far as advertising or outreach... If there's budget, I would HIGHLY recommend going to various events, clubs, etc. to show off the Udoo and demo some of the great projects that can be done with it. Show off it's differentiating features. Talk up it's power vs the Pi - for instance, to be able to do everything I can do do on the Udoo, I would have to buy a Pi, AND a Due, Cables for each, Power supplies for each, a USB Wifi Adaptor, possibly a Powered USB Hub, and I couldn't fit it all in the same form factor. Compare that to a Udoo-Dual and the price difference is almost $0, but the Udoo is still >2x faster! You bring that to robotics clubs and maker spaces and do demos showing that off, and you WILL drum up interest! I showed off my Udoo and all the stuff you guys sent us to the Atlanta Hobby Robotics Club (over Skype since I'm in New Jersey now) and they were really interested. It would have been even better if I had shown them an actual project showing off the power of the Udoo. I did a similar presentation to the club a year ago on the Pi and now at least 5 members of the club have bought and played with Pi's and use them in projects. 5) Not sure what you guys did/do for this, but some validation testing of the Arduino side seems to be needed. We're seeing a number of reports of people having issues getting things working on the Udoo's Arduino side that work fine on a Due. This needs to be a non-issue.... 6) Yeah, I agree with DracoLlasa on the need for even basic cases - Both for the Udoo, and for the screens (either together or individual units). I HATE not having my Udoo in a case, especially this time of year when static electricity builds up constantly. I haven't even tried to hook up the displays you sent us because I have no way to mount or hold them in place... There were a couple interesting case designs discussed back in December here on the forums and then the people working on them just disappeared - so there STILL isn't really a good case option out there for the Udoo. By now the Pi had probably 10 different options out there! 7) Agreed as well on looking for ways/places where you can leverage / be compatible with accessories already on the market for the BB Black and Pi - Yes, this means you aren't making money from selling the accessories, but you'll sell more Udoo boards (which I'm betting are higher profit margin anyhow). People are more willing to take a chance on a new board if they can carry forward the accessories they already have or can pick up locally. 8) Talk to companies like Adafruit.com and Pololu.com here in the USA and get them to carry the Udoo - They carry all kinds of ARM boards and robotics/electronics stuff and are small companies. You get them onboard and you WILL get more sales because you'll get people who are on their sites looking for other things who will see it (or better will see a post on those sites by the companies talking about how great the product is!) Right now the only people buying Udoos are those who know to go to the Udoo site, and those are only people who have heard of it and are looking for it. You need to get the opportunity impulse buyers and to do that you need to be on other storefronts....
Thank you guys, your analisys was very detailed and gave us lots of stuff to think about. I spoke to the other guys here and we'll have a meeting today or tomorrow to plan the next steps. - The price aspect is the tricky one, i'm not sure we can drop the price but we'll definitely consider to create a less powerful UDOO single core. - We're having some difficulties with the displays but once fixed we can focus on "clean them up". The compatibility with the BBB and Pi is mandatory. The stand idea is great - You're right about the custom OS raspbian style, we need to create our own OS (like UDOO OS or UDOOOS) and to improve the user experience using a better understanding getting started guide, the BBB one is nice but not perfect, it can be improved. - The magazine is actually a good idea, i'd love to see a UDOO magazine and it will definitely help to grow the community. - The event side is, in my opinion, already well handled. We're full of meetings and events: in april we'll be in China for the Maker Faire, last week we were in India while in 2 weeks we'll be in Milan. - Yes, we must absolutely improve the Arduino IDE side. - Yes, we NEED a case!!!!! - The reseller side is actually well covered: http://www.udoo.org/distributors/ but we'll definitely contact Adafruit and Pololu Btw i'll give you feedbacks about the meeting
Thanks a lot for the follow up Delba. We know that not everything can be fixed right away and some of this stuff we outlined may be out of scope or not an immediate issue but the fact that you guys are discussing it internally means a lot. It really helps support the notion that the UDOO team really listens and cares about the user community. i know the price may be hard to do and if you cant hit a $50 mark that is fine.. it was just a thought.. that said, while i dont have any insight into the sales of the UDOO lite i cant imagine they are that wonderful. It would just be interesting ti see if it received similar features as the Dual but with a single core chip. it would round out the product line nicely. UDOO Solo, Dual, Quad. It sounds like you guys are on the same page with getting a solid single main UDOO OS platform going and i think that is a critical next step. whether its Linaro /ubunto or debian you guys know best, hf is key i agree, and i will again stress that a good user experience is also key. the way beaglebone did theirs is great, i know i sound lie a broken record but having a quick start, and web IDE and control panel that lets the less experienced users be productive faster would just be a great selling point. Anyways, thanks again, please let us know f you want to bounce ideas off us or if you want feedback on more specific things. Also we would be happy to do any testing that we can.
Yeah, what DracoLlasa said - Once I'm done with grad school on the 23, I can certainly free up some time to help test anything you need. Just knowing that you guys are listening and taking suggestions to heart goes a long way towards making me feel like this won't turn into an abandoned project. Just need to figure out how to get all the OTHER users to feel that way too... Maybe even a "Submit your cool Udoo-based project writeups. Every week we'll pick one to feature on the web site and send the developer/author a cool little gift". For many people they will buy boards like the Udoo because it looks cool but once they get it they have no idea what to do with it. Seeing what others make gives them ideas and gets people excited. And it also helps get other people interested in the Udoo as well if somebody does something really amazingly cool. The RPi folks do a GREAT job of promoting themselves by promoting what their users do WITH the Pi. If you guys are going to be at some event - Post about it on the main page of the site so people know in advance to come see you! Do a little travel log post afterwards with pictures of you guys with some of the people who stop by the booth, or of you demonstrating the board in front of an audience. Document any fun stories people discuss with you while there. In short - make it a FUN, interesting, lively personal site. You want new buyers to feel like this thing is getting a lot of interest and has a vibrant community.
And as far as a case goes, I absolutely LOVED the direction Kintera was going with his before he dropped off the map... (see the Cases section). I liked that he had an option compartment for a 2.5" drive, air flow, and the lid could be taken off without totally disassembling the case so you could get at the IO pins. Now with the 7" display I could see even making an add-on "hinged lid" for the case that included the display. So you could "open" it up and have the display stand up, and expose access to the IO.... Just would be nice if we had a case option like that.... I have access to a laser cutter but no idea how to design up something with it.
As promised here's the report to the meeting we had yesterday: - About the light version of UDOO we'll think about it and see if we can release a less powerful version. More info will come. - About the accessories: we're already working to "clean" the displays, (we'll be able to fix everything soon, then we can concentrate more to this aspect). - We're full of events actually, it's a well covered part but you guys are right, we need to improve the communication side of these events. - Case: wait for it - Resellers: Adafruit would be nice for the tutorials side but (as i already said in the last post) we're well covered here: http://www.udoo.org/distributors/ - Software: the official UDOO OS proposal has been approved. We should use Ubuntu 12.04 armHF to do so. Plus we'll create a more complete getting started (like BBB but with a better user experience) with lost of resources on it. We'll definitely use cloud9 (we're testing it right now). Our aim is to create a great user experience environment for the noobs and basics users. - the magazine, NO at the moment. So i guess you guys made some rumors here in UDOO Great job!!! I'll keep you updated about the software side which will be the most active from now on!
all awesome news, i cant wait to see the outcome.. w/r/t the new user experience.. since im really not an expert with embedded systems or even Linux really, i would be happy to consult on ways to do the UX for UDOO. I am not sure where mike is on the experience slider, but i think its a bit more than me.. i know Jim was notably more than me. Anyways, its common for teams like the UDOO team, full of technical experts to miss out of things that new users would deem useful or valuable. "hard to see the Forrest through the trees". please feel free to let me know if we can be of help here. The one other comment i will make is that i think the magazine, while a good idea should be a community driven thing, just as MagPi is a community project and not actually affiliated with the Raspberry Pi Foundation. Once i get my site off the ground, and UDOO gets more steady on its feet i think we can look to start community content like this but i would say lets start with a weekly/bi-weekly/monthly newsletter, something similar to Pi Weekly. I have managed similar projects, even an online magazine site. Right now its just a matter of time and product maturity. Thanks again Delba for the updates. we are looking forward to testing all the things !!
Yeah, thanks for letting us know how it went. Always happy to help where I can. Even if all of our ideas weren't what the team felt was right, at least you know where our feelings are on things. And I agree - wasn't suggesting the Udoo team do something like the MagPi, just was holding it up as an example of how that community has really taken the product to heart, and how we need a similar situation to happen with the Udoo. I think for the most part the early wave people have gotten over the beginning humps of getting the Udoo working. I just wonder how much they're actively still using it and doing things with it. It seems like a lot of the early adopters have disappeared. How do we get them to come back? What sort of download numbers are you guys seeing when you put up new OS update versions? That is probably your most telling indication as to how actively people are using the board.
